El Degas J-200 copy?

[mico888]

I'm looking for some information on a El Degas acoustic guitar. It's a copy of a Gibson J-200 that is supposedly made in Japan. It says it's a F-308 model. Any information would be great appreciated and bonus if someone has the catalog!

[Barry]

Hello mico888 and welcome.
Pictures would be helpful eh? Otherwise we're just blue skying a response.

That said, I'm a little confused by the model number that you quoted. An "F" designation usually referred to a Fender copy and a Gibson model would usually be designated with a "G" prefix. (That's why pictures are so helpful).

The el Degas history is murky without a clear and well documented path as it was a white label product with multiple manufacturers over the years, and even from different countries. Things such as serial numbers and model designations were subject to constant change making it hard to track models.

If you indeed have an MIJ model it should be extremely good quality going by past experience here. Later builds from Korea were also well made although perhaps not quite as good as the Japanese builds.

As for catalogs, they're as rare as rocking horse poo and there is very little info available.
Post a few pix when you can and maybe we can offer a better analysis for you.

[charles]

I've found the info on F- models to be very sparse. I'm of the opinion that El Degas used the F- prefix before switching to model prefixes that made it a little easier to tell what they were copying (GB- for Gibson, MT- for Martin, etc). Because I think these are earlier models, it should also corroborate that this would be a Japanese model.

Unfortunately I don't have any catalogs with acoustic models to see that exact model.

If you have any more info such as a link or photo I'd love to see it.

[mico888]

Hope this works...

https://postimg.cc/gallery/bSyKW5F

[charles]

Looks like a previous owner replaced the original pickguard with two matched pickguards. It's an interesting look, but definitely not original.

Yup that is an early Japanese copy of a J-200.

One thing I'll mention is the adjustable plastic bridge saddle is kind of nice to have so you can adjust the height of it, but it is not always the best tone-wise vs a solidly mounted bone saddle (or other material). I have that same saddle on one or two of my acoustics and it's... okay but not my favorite.

[Barry]

Yeah, it's a J-200 copy alright. Can't say for certain but it might indeed be a MIJ instrument except that wide bridge makes me hesitate a little. More on that below.

And I agree with Charles that the second pick guard on the top is not original.
The Everly Brothers frequently played J-200's early in their career, as well as a number of other Gibson flat tops.

They popularized that distinctive 2-pick guard style which IMHO got a little crazy as time went on and just about covered the entire top of the guitar! (Have a look at Google Images and you'll see what I mean) That likely influenced the previous owner.

I'm not a fan but attempting to remove it would likely damages the finish.

That is one massive bridge, wow! Very wide, and ornate and a deviation from the Gibson design.
The MIJ builders of this era usually kept pretty close to the model they were copying, and the MIK models seemed to drift a little bit away from that so a part of me thinks it could be Korean.

This is still a nicely made guitar either way, and on the plus side, that should add a lot of stability and prevent string tension from lifting it or "humping" the sound board.

And yes that adjustable saddle was a good idea...in theory. In reality it is a tone sucker! I replaced the one on my ED Gibson Dove model and the difference is nigh and day. If your situation allows it, you can make this guitar come alive if you do the same.

I have always liked the Jumbo but never had the opportunity to get one. Enjoy that bad boy!

[charles]

The headstock logo style and F- prefix point to MIJ.

[Barry]

The headstock logo style and F- prefix point to MIJ.

I defer to your expertise Charles. MIJ it is!

[charles]

I've always kind-of lamented the adjustable bridge saddles they sometimes used in this era. Probably looked good on paper to give the adjustment option, but I'll take a properly mounted saddle every time.

Regardless, they do work and I still have 1 acoustic with that system

[Barry]

It would be very nice if this idea worked as intended. But, alas, the physics do not allow it to.

An acoustic saddle needs solid contact with the bridge over its entire length in order to transfer the full frequency and string vibrational energy to the sound board.

This design allows contact only via the 2 screws drastically reducing volume and tone. Sadly, an adjustable bridge is a luxury only electric guitar players enjoy.

[charles]

The adjustable bridge in my acoustic does at least have the plastic saddle in a metal housing that gives contact with the surrounding bridge material. Better than nothing, and actually a pretty interesting design.

[Barry]

Hey, it does work...sort of.

I played my guitar for years with it installed and I was none the wiser, until I played with someone else who had a "proper" bridge/saddle in his guitar. Then the difference in volume was very noticeable!

When I was a teacher ( back in Medieval times) my Vice Principal and I frequently got together for assemblies and such. He played, in his words, his "big, thumpin' Guild". It completely overpowered my Dove!

That saddle support really amounts to being an "elevator". As such it must have clearance in order to move vertically.

By definition then it cannot have any meaningful contact with the bridge, perhaps a little bit from the string tension pulling it forward, but ultimately nothing really useful.