One mo' time...who made El Degas anyway?

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Barry
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One mo' time...who made El Degas anyway?

Post by Barry »

Long time readers of this Forum are aware that many of us have lost sleep (and probably hair) trying to answer this question. It is the single most perplexing thing about this brand. A search here will reveal many speculative references on this subject.

About the only thing we know for sure is that the El Degas brand was a "white label" distributed in Canada by B&J Music (still in business incidentally but no records of the ED brand survived--we checked). White label means that there was no single supplier of these instruments. They were made by a variety of Japanese, Korean, Indonesian, and even Romanian(!) companies. The consensus is that the Japanese made models were superior to the rest, with the general quality deteriorating as the point of origin moved further away from Japan.

The list of potential Japanese makers of the time (late 70's to early '80's mainly) is many and includes, Matsumoku, Fuji Gen, Hoshino, Kandashoukai, etc. Rather than list them all I refer you to this informative article which talks about them in some detail: http://hubpages.com/hub/Japanese-Manufa ... 50-to-1980

As if this isn't enough confusion, I came across this article which also engages in speculation on the origins of the El Degas brand: http://www.myrareguitars.com/bcm-el-deg ... ass-guitar

In it, one person states categorically (without proof) that it was Matsumoku and Fuji Jen(sic). Another one states emphatically that it was Hoshino "on authority" of someone named Steve Brand who purportedly worked for them. Again, no proof or reference.

But what made me roll my eyes was this excerpt which claimed that the ED brand was absolutely created in France by a Parisienne Luthier!
I’m french master luthier. I was surfing on the net when I discovered people talking about El Degas. I can give you the exact history of this brand, because I lived it.

The brand was created in Paris by my boss Gérard Charnoz (Musicologist), who was owning a guitar shop and his brother Jean-Luc Charnoz was luthier and harpsichord maker and I learned lutherie with him. That was in 1972. Because the shop was specialized in acoustic instruments and at the same looking to new products at a time Japan was starting the guitar industry. The brothers created 3 brands : EL DEGAS, D’ANGELICA, MOUNTAIN. all amde in Japan, intially for the needs of the shop. years after, the shop closed, but the brand survived. As I worked in the shop and the workshop during years, I can confirm you all this. We have sold bulks of El Degas…etc. Hope this information is usefull for you. All the best to all the members.
Last edited by Kamel Chenaouy; 01-17-2014 at 12:10 PM.
I started this thread in a effort to try and consolidate information the subject. It might be helpful to add links to existing posts in this Forum.

This orphan brand now seems to be almost taking on the status of Urban Myth.
El Degas is the Loch Ness monster of the guitar world! :mrgreen:
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Barry
Posts: 1038
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:31 pm
Location: St. Catharines, Ontario Canada
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Re: One mo' time...who made El Degas anyway?

Post by Barry »

Interesting followup:
I was really bugged by the above reference to Gérard Charnoz's having invented the ED brand, and the other two. So, I did the Google thing. Couldn't find anything meaningful.

There does appear to be someone called Gérard Charnoz, and there is at least one vague connection to a musical Bluegrass group, but mostly he appears to be associated with art of some sort. Couldn't find any references to "lutherie" or "musc shop".
So, dead end methinks.

When I tried looking up the D'Angelica brand mentioned, again, nothing. There is a D'Angelico which I knew about, and was an Amercian made instrument. There are also several other similar sounding Italian hyphanated names related to guitar making, but nowhere could I find D'Angelica.
Another dead end.

However, and here's the "interesting" part, when I investigated the Mountain brand, it turned up some decent pictures of an acoustic model, plus one showing the branding on one of the braces. http://www.jedistar.com/jedistar_vintag ... ing_m4.htm

The thing which I noticed was the designer credit: Made by Hayashi. The significance of this? Hayashi was a significant engineering force in the Aria Pro/Matsumoku era. From the Wikipedia listing on Matsumoku:
Design engineer Nobuaki Hayashi (currently with Atlansia) became part of Matsumoku's engineering team in the mid-1970s. Hayashi's pseudonym, "H. Noble", appeared on many of the Aria Pro II instruments he designed
I happen to own a Vantage branded acoustic, a Canadian white label from the 80's which has ties to Mats, and it looks very much like the Mountain version. Vantage has links to Matsumoku who made their electric guitars. They did not make the acoustics however, so we're not a whole lot closer to the origins of the ED models. But it doesn't take too much of a stretch to see that the ties to Matsumoku/Aria appear a wee bit stronger.
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